The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
We're all about helping create a healthy, positive, and spiritually positive environment for church staff members and leadership teams.
The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
What Ministry Leaders Can Learn from Marriage Therapists
The key to better ministry leadership might be borrowing wisdom from an unexpected place - the marriage therapist's office. We explore three powerful insights from counseling that can radically improve how church leaders listen, lead, and love their staff and congregation.
• Learning to listen to understand, not just respond - pushing past our "fix-it mode" to truly hear others
• Creating space for honesty by asking open-ended questions rather than leading questions
• Recognizing that sometimes silence isn't just awkward, but sacred
• Stopping the rush to fix problems and starting to see people first
• Understanding that validation is often more pastoral than immediate solutions
• Following Jesus' example of seeing the person before healing the problem
• Creating safe spaces for transformation without judgment
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In today's episode of the Healthy Church Staff podcast, we're going to borrow some wisdom from a really unexpected place the marriage therapist couch. Ministry leaders often feel the pressure to fix all kinds of problems, to smooth over conflict, to make everybody happy, but we've been asking some of the wrong questions here, and today we're going to explore really three powerful insights from the world of counseling, and marriage counseling in particular, that can, if you put them into place, can radically improve how you lead and listen and love your church staff and congregation. So, whether you're navigating through those tough conversations or trying to rebuild trust, hopefully these tools won't be good just for couples, but they're also good for any pastor who wants to have healthier ministry relationships. All right, thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Todd Rhodes, one of the co-founders over at chemistrystaffingcom, and you're listening to the Healthy Church Staff Podcast. What if I told you that the key to better ministry leadership could come from a marriage therapist's office? Most church leaders are trained to teach and lead and counsel others, but a lot of us we struggle to actually listen. So stick around. We're going to give you, as I mentioned before unpacking, three therapist-inspired skills that could really dramatically change how you lead your team and why one of them might stop a staff conflict before it even starts.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're going to talk primarily about listening today. All right, listening to understand, not to respond. Are you like me? Because I, boy, this is a problem for me. A lot of times when I'm in a conversation, especially a conversation that's very intense, I tend to listen to respond. I'm trying to listen, I'm listening enough so that I can formulate my answer back, my response right. But a lot of times we just need to push pause, not worry about how we're going to respond and listen to understand.
Speaker 1:Ministry leaders are often in these a fix-it mode. We did just did a podcast on being a fixer on your staff. But many ministry leaders are often in this fix-it mode, especially when a staff member walks into your office with tears or tension. But we don't ever think about ourselves as kind of therapists. Therapists are trained to sit in the discomfort and to listen deeply, not to crack, not to coach, not to compare stories, but to listen. Can you help me how you're feeling? Understand how you're feeling right now? A simple shift that changes the tone completely. This is the opposite of the mode that we're in most of the time as a church staff person, which is more of a transactional leadership right. It's more incarnational, it's slowing down long enough to hear not just the words but the meaning behind them, and that's really important.
Speaker 1:Church staff, what if your staff meetings were just agenda-driven, but really a safe place for honesty, a place where you can ask not just ask questions, but ask better questions that don't lead the witness right? Therapists are very good, matter of fact. They're trained in asking open-ended questions that invite the person to give some depth in their answers. And pastors we often ask leading questions like don't you think this will be fine after Sunday? You're not upset, are you? Those things don't challenge, they don't give you open dialogue, they really kind of shut it down even before it starts. So maybe, instead of those questions, maybe start with some open-ended questions what's been the hardest part of this whole thing for you? Or something like if nothing changes, what are you worried about? These type of open-ended questions create space for emotion and honesty and transformation, not just for compliance. Now they may lead to longer conversations and more nuanced conversations, and that's fine, because you just have to remember sometimes those kind of conversations are actually what are needed. Sometimes silence isn't just awkward, it's sometimes sacred. We just need to take our time with conversations and let the conversations do the work that they need to.
Speaker 1:And then point number three is stop fixing and start seeing right. If you are a fixer, you know how to fix things. I'm a fixer, I know how to fix things. But sometimes I can railroad and run over and bulldoze people when I'm trying to find a fix, rather than seeing the perspective of why there's a problem in the first place. Therapists, on the other hand, they're not trying to fix their clients, they're trying to help them feel seen, and as ministry leaders, as church staff members, as pastors.
Speaker 1:A lot of times we can swoop in with the Bible verses. We've got a verse for everything, we've got an action plan for everything. We've got sometimes this kind of silver lining theology that everything's going to work out if we just fix it right now. But here's the problem Trying to fix things too fast often invalidates what's real. Instead of saying God's going to use this, we should really be saying again, just taking a step back, and saying man, that sounds exhausting, you've been carrying a lot. And start the conversation that way, because validation is one of the most pastoral things that you can offer, and it's one of the most timely things that you can offer. And sometimes, when you offer that, it takes extra time because you're not just fixing everything. You're actually listening and trying to work and see what Jesus is doing here. Jesus did this all the time he saw the person before he healed the problem.
Speaker 1:So here's the bottom line for today. At the end of the day, okay, marriage therapists succeed not because they control the outcomes, because, honestly, they rarely ever do. It's between the parties involved, right. But the reason that marriage therapists succeed is because they cultivate these safe places for transformation and we as pastors, we as church leaders, we as church staff members need to do the same Create those safe spaces for transformation and conversations without judgment. Stop trying to fix everything right away. There will be a fix, but sometimes you just need to walk through it.
Speaker 1:All right, that's it for today. I hope this has been helpful, maybe given you a little bit different way of looking at your role as a fixer or your role as a leader in your church. I'd love to hear your feedback. You can reach out to me anytime. Podcast at chemistrystaffingcom. All right, that's it for today. Today is Friday. If you're listening on the day this was released. I hope you have a great weekend at your church. Hope you take some time to just spend with your family and enjoy the weekend as well. Summer will be gone before we know it and I'll be right back here on Monday on the Healthy Church Dad podcast. Thanks for listening you.
